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The Scrumptious Woman EP55
Mon, Jan 15, 2024 5:29AM • 31:29
money, love, book, clients, financial professionals, relationship, work, women, write, scrumptious, realise, incubator, christine, drudgery, finances, fun, divorcing, date, remember, coaching
Christine Luken, Juliette Karaman
Juliette Karaman 00:00
So welcome to another episode of The scrumptious woman. I have Christine Luken with me, and she is ready for money to support your happiness rather than stress you out. Yes, right. We’re all ready for that. Then you need Christine Luken. Find financial dignity coach in your corner. As the founder of the financial dignity movement. Christine has coached hundreds of high earning professionals, business owners and divorcing woman to pay off staggering amounts of debt and massively increase their net worth. The author of three books, honey, moly, and the house of money is emotional podcast. Christine blends wise money management with emotional intelligence. When she’s not coaching clients from her home office in Cincinnati, you can find this member of the National Associations of divorce professionals curled up with a good book, a fluffy cat, and a strong cup of coffee. See, you’re a cat lover?
Christine Luken 01:12
I am. Yeah.
Juliette Karaman 01:19
I love this. Oh, my goodness, you have written three books? Yes.
Christine Luken 01:23
Yeah. Working on the fourth right now. And
Juliette Karaman 01:28
they’re all about money and the emotional ties with that, or what’s
it all about? Yeah, yeah. So my first book, money is emotional. I wrote it because all the other personal finance books out there would talk just about the how to. And I would find that people would say, Well, I’ve tried that, and it doesn’t work for me. Or I just suck at this. And it’s because they didn’t address the emotional side of things. They just said, just ignore your emotions. And just do this is pretty much impossible for us to do and not not at all healthy, either. Yeah, so completely get it. Yeah. So my second book is for entrepreneurs. And my third book is for divorcing women.
Juliette Karaman 02:22
Okay, this all because of your experience, what’s, how did you get to writing these and get to where you are now? Well,
so I crashed and burned financially, despite having an economics degree in my late 20s. And it was not because I didn’t have the head knowledge. It was because I had allowed my heart to hijack my wallet. So I was engaged to a guy who had terrible money habits. He was in and out of jobs and even in jail, and I thought if I just loved him enough, that he would change. And he did, he got
Juliette Karaman 03:08
Okay, I want everyone to take a breath, because there’s probably quite a few of us that can recognise at least parts of ourselves and that story.
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think the big thing that I realised going through this was that I had a relationship with money. And I was not prioritising money, I was not protecting money. I was allowing my money to be manipulated. And, you know, in all honesty, violated by my now, former fiance. And I had to learn how to rebuild that relationship with money into forgive myself, for the things that I did with my money. And that that was definitely a journey, especially because I felt like a fraud. And I felt like a hypocrite because here I was working for a multimillion dollar manufacturing company, helping them to do their budget. And yet I was bouncing my own checks at home. And I know a lot of people can relate to that. But I feel like it was even it was even worse for me because I was someone who should have known better.
Juliette Karaman 04:48
And I also hear there’s a lot of judgement there right? I should have known better. Right? And this is this is one of the little sneaky ones that comes up like Oh, but I should know better. I should have known. Yeah, that’s like, okay, so like, let’s unclench that one and say, Hey, okay, I might have mine if and I’m starting now I’m drawing a line sign to the line in the sand. And yeah, that’s actually fine, some compassion. So it sounds like that is what your book, that first book and that journey was all about.
Yeah, it absolutely was. And I find that a lot of people avoid dealing with their finances, because they have this level of guilt and shame around how they’ve handled their finances. And that’s one of the things that, that I take a stand against, because I know I’ve felt it myself. And it’s not productive. We know that shame doesn’t produce fruitful outcomes. But we need to have somebody safe that we can come to, to process that. And to release it and to let it go. And unfortunately, historically, financial professionals have not been the most compassionate folks. And that it is something that that I want to change. That’s the reason why I started the financial dignity movement was to not only serve my clients from this heart centred space, yes, we are going to take care of all of the, the logical pieces, right, we’re going to take care of the practical pieces of money are what I call the provider energy of money. And we also get to play in the pleasure, energy of money. But people have to feel a sense of safety with the financial professionals that they’re working with. And so one of the things that I’ve done is I’ve created a course that teaches emotional intelligence to financial professionals.
Juliette Karaman 07:20
Oh, great. So it’s not just you taking on clients, but you’re actually teaching this to people in the field, right. And that’s, that’s so important. So that they also understand what their clients are going through, and you don’t just get a tick on the fingers like, bad boy, bad girl, whatever, you know, bad woman, because we’re to where you, you help women mostly, but it’s like, you know what, that doesn’t help. We’ve realised that you can tell someone off and that’s really not going to change them, oftentimes by actually being sympathetic and saying, Oh, how about we try this? That is how we can actually create change. Yeah. Nice. Nice, nice. So if there’s someone at the moment, that’s just kind of thinking like, oh, okay, yeah, I’m a bit of an ostrich I stick my head in the sand. I mean, hey, I’m sorry. My hand is up, too. It’s like, I’m looking at my voice, like, Oh, I think I think I need to do my taxes and look at all the expenses of my company through like, I had, I remember the first time that I went to debtors anonymous. And I was kind of like, put, I’ve got money, why do I need to go to debtors anonymous, and then I actually realise it’s like, oh, because there are parts of my money that I have no clue where it is, or what I actually have in my bank account. And I’m a little bit better, but I wouldn’t say that I’m at your level or even at the start with your level. But it’s also it’s actually getting to that point where it’s like, oh, I realise that is now something that I need to put my that I want to put my attention on. I guess people come to you when they need to put their attention on it when they’ve they’ve probably gotten to a point that it’s like, oh,
yeah, I think I think it’s it is twofold. There. There are people who come to me where they basically say, this has got to get better. And most of my clients make excellent money. All of my clients are six figure income earners. And
it’s not so much they don’t know how to make money. It’s once it comes in, what are we doing with it then?
And many people that I work with, they are very busy. You know, they have their own businesses. You know, they’re doctors, they’re attorneys, they’ve got families. They they have very full and busy lives. And to them the money management P seems like another to do to scratch off their list. And most of them have tried to out earn their money problems. Right? They think, well, if I just make more money, yeah, then everything will get better. And, you know, that might work for a little while until they get to this point to where they say, I can’t work any harder. I can’t make any more money. Because, I mean, I’ve got clients who are making eight $900,000 a year, and they’re like, why am I still treading water? No, because there are pieces of their relationship with money that they’re ignoring, that are collecting. And they’re operating out of the same habits in the same mindset. When they were making, you know, 50 grand or 70 grand, now they’re making 10 times that. But if you never change the habits, you’re never going to change that underlying relationship with money. And my goal, really, is to get people to look at this differently. You know, this is the scrumptious woman podcast, like, Ken, your relationship with money, scrumptious? And my answer is, absolutely, it can. But we have to think about it as a relationship and not a to do to check off your list. As beautiful
Juliette Karaman 11:40
my guest before you talked about the relationship with your inner masculine. And here we’re talking about the relationship with money. My what I help women and couples with is the most intimate relationship and that’s yourself. So it’s all the same what we’re doing. But it’s like, we have to become intimate. And what I’m hearing you say is like, start having start becoming intimate with money, start looking at what your blocks may be, what your thoughts are, what people have told you about money, what your beliefs are, are they even yours? And like, there’s so many things that I’m sure you look at, like, you know, money’s hard to get by Money doesn’t grow on trees. And you have to work hard for the money, all these things that we start looking at. It’s like, where’s that energetic interference to actually having a clean relationship with money? Right,
right. Absolutely. And, you know, I tell people, like, if if you talk to your spouse or partner, the way you thought and talked about money, would they actually want to spend time with you? Oh, yeah. So if we’re saying like, Oh, money is dirty, and it’s the root of all evil? I mean, why would it want to come and stay with you? Yeah. And so one of the things that I tell people is to really think about your money as if it’s another person. How are you relating to money? How are you talking to money and about money? Are you spending time with money. And many of us feel like, the tasks that we quote, have to do with money, have to be a drag, they have to be boring, etc, right? When we think about, oh, I’ve got to spend time with money, managing my money, we think about, Oh, I gotta go down into the basement into this room with a card table and a folding chair and a bare bulb hanging from the ceiling, with all my piles of paperwork, right? And this is gonna feel like I’m down in the dungeon, doing something that is drudgery. But it doesn’t have to be that way. And in fact, I call it the money date. Love it. And so whether you’re single, or you’re managing money with a partner, it’s still a money date, because it’s still you and money spending time together. So do it at a time where you’re feeling relaxed, but alert and create a pleasant environment, right? You light a candle, play some music that you like, have your favourite beverage. Yes, I mean, it can be a glass of wine. If you want it to be with your money date. And with your spouse or partner, it’s the exact same thing. It’s so funny because I was quoted recently in the Wall Street Journal about my Hey, sexy money date, save more. So I’ve had some I had several, I had this one. So I had one client in particular, where she was really resisting, having the weekly money date with her spouse. So when I’m coaching clients, we meet twice a month. And on the off weeks, I have my clients, if they’re a couple, you know, get together 15 minutes, 20 minutes just to talk about money, review how things are going. Now, it doesn’t have to be super intense or take a long period of time. And she just said, I wish that the weekly money date was more like our dates out, you know, like our, our weekly, couples date. And I said, Well, why can’t it be? I said, What if you do your weekly money date before you literally go out on your date, like dress up in your fancy clothes, spend 1520 minutes and then go out on your date. And I said, Look, I don’t care if you do your money date and your sexy clothes, or even naked just make sure you get the money management done before you touch each other.
Juliette Karaman 16:32
Love this and I think we we were on a on a summit or something together we talked about but 60 dates with money. And I think I shared with you that at one point I got like a shitload of, of notes out of the ATM, I were out at the back. And then I just lie, I was laying on the bed, I put them on the bed. And I just self pleasured I talked to to money. I touched my body. I had it caress me. And and you know, and there were moments where I’m like, oh, it’s been in other people’s hands. Oh, money is dirty. And I actually moved through that because it’s like, I could hear all those those stories come up. And I was just like nipple. Yeah, this gets to be fun. And I remember my partner coming home, he’s like, What did you just do? I’m like, go back to the bank tomorrow. But actually having that physical cash, makes it very different to us just a very different connotation. And I remember, with my kids, when they were young, they just they didn’t understand numbers. So I was like, okay, the way to explain numbers is to give them some cash. Tell them to go into the newsagent or in the shop, and pick something out, see how much it is? Give them their little pound coin or their their dollar when they were in the States. They didn’t understand the states because there’s a tax that goes on top it and understand that. We don’t have that UK like, and I was like you give money and you get something back and make sure that it’s the right thing. And they were like, oh, so for the longest time I only gave them cash so that I could actually understand what it meant.
Yeah. Well, and that’s a good point. In this digital age, many of us are disconnected from our finances, and we’re disconnected from money. And one of the things that I do is I carry large bills, you know, 50 and $100 bills in my wallet at all times because it makes me feel wealthy and prosperous. And I’ve done that for years, even even before I hit millionaire status. Yeah, that was something that was like, I want to be in touch with it. And for some people touches their love language, right? And we can translate those love languages into your love language with money. So cool. And for those people who love to touch, you know, if touches the as a big thing for them, then that might be important.
Juliette Karaman 19:17
Isn’t it clever, right? So we can touch it. It can be words of affirmation, you can you can actually write a love letter to your money. I know that’s one of the ways I deal with bodies a lot. So I kind of like see how the parallel things that are right now you can write a love letter to to money and how you can actually write a forgiveness letter or how you can take yourself through a whole forgiveness thing and saying, Hey, I’ve misused you. I haven’t actually always held you in such high regard.
Well, and I love that you mentioned that because one of the things that I will have clients do is to write a letter to money As if it were a person, because it really starts to uncover their real feelings about money. And then I’ll say, okay, you know, write this letter, and then two or three days later, imagine that you’re writing another letter to money a year from now, when you’re feeling really good about where you are with your money, and write that letter to money reflecting how you want your relationship to money to be. And the awesome thing about that is, you know, as we’re doing the very practical things that need to be done, they can return back to that letter. And that provides motivation for them to say, you know, here’s the reason why I’m doing this. And I love also making the practical pieces of money management, more scrumptious.
Juliette Karaman 21:06
Oh, tell me more palatable,
more fun? Well, I mean, one of the things that we can do is, I mean, we can use technology to make things easier, right? I have people say all the time, I’m not great with money, because I’m not good at math. You don’t have to know any math at all. If you have the right tools to help you. You know, even just something like getting yourself a wallet, or a purse that every time you pull it out, it just makes you smile, right? Anything surrounding your money. Whether it’s, you know, I know a lot of people don’t write checks anymore. But I used to tell people back in the day, like get yourself customised checks that have, you know, some sort of cartoon characters that you love or that are pretty, or whatever the case may be like, we can surround money with beauty and make it more fun, versus you know, a drudgery. I have a friend who she puts on a ballgown. And a tiara when she does her taxes.
Juliette Karaman 22:21
I love it.
I love it, too. Now I hire somebody to do my taxes because I got a D in tax accounting in college. So that part of money is not my strong suit.
Juliette Karaman 22:37
But really it is about how can we have a relationship with self, but doesn’t look at money gets completely overwhelmed and scared. Beats themselves up? For really, how can we just have the most fun, the most scrumptious nerve just just being with money? Right?
Well, and there’s no shame in hiring someone to help you through that process. No, that’s when people hire me. I’m not working with them forever. Yeah, we work for a short period of time together to really figure out exactly what what system do they need to have that scrumptious relationship with money, right, so that they have that solid foundation of provider money that’s making them feel safe and secure, so that they can fully enjoy the pleasure part of money. Because it’s really hard to enjoy those splurges and those fun things, if you don’t have a sense of safety and security in your finances. Right.
Juliette Karaman 23:55
And that’s always the basis of everything right? If we don’t know where the finances are gonna come for, for food or for a roof over our head, it’s, it’s very difficult to to even be in a creative way of how can we pull in more money? Or how can we be pleasurable with money? Because it’s like, I don’t know, where my where my next piece of bread is gonna come from? Or the school fees or something, right?
Yeah. So it’s like we need and, you know, that’s what I teach people is we need both sides of it, you know, the provider money and the pleasure money. They’re two sides of the same coin. You know, like, Where does one side begin and the other side and
Juliette Karaman 24:44
and that’s, that’s beautiful, right? Again, this we go back to duality. And then you know, we live in a dualistic world where there’s not one without the other. And then how can we really be with both ends of the spectrum and remove that? Charge remove that interference to either of these energies.
Yeah, well and I’ve done visual visualisations with you and other settings where you have brought together those two, supposedly opposite sides of the coin, and brought them so close together where those edges are touching. And like that’s really where the magic lies. Because you can’t. Like I said, you can’t fully enjoy that pleasure part of money without the safety. But if you just have the safety net, without the fun, you’ve missed the point entirely. Yeah. And the analogy that I love to use is the trapeze. So right, you have two pieces of equipment, you have the swing, and you have the safety net. If you have if you’re swinging on the trapeze, and you have no safety net, that’s not fun. That is freakin terrifying. Yeah. But if you have a safety net with no swing, the point of the whole entire thing, right. And so, you know, what I’m, what I’m helping people do is to, you know, reinforce that net, and assess that net. And while we do that, we are starting to increase the height of that swing. You know, so if you have, if you’ve got a lot of holes in your safety net, we can still have some pleasure. But that swing is not going to be very far off the ground, because I don’t want you to hurt yourself. But when you get to the point of where you’re like, damn, I really have an amazing safety net, then, Oh, honey, you can swing for the stars with that pleasure, money. And that is really where the magic is.
Juliette Karaman 27:00
I love this. And then when you play in the pleasure, money, that’s where the magic begins. Right? And that’s where you start calling him even more magic.
Yes, yeah. Yeah.
Juliette Karaman 27:11
I love this. Ah, it has been an absolute delight. Christine, where can people find you?
They can find me on my website, which is my name, Christine lucan.com. And they can also find my podcast at money is emotional podcast.com.
Juliette Karaman 27:35
And your books are on Amazon and all the bookstores, etc. Online. Absolutely. But it’s wonderful. I I know that you shared with me the other day. And I’d love you to just share that with the listeners when someone came up to you and actually told you how one bit of your book has changed their lives. And want to share that with us? Yeah,
I was. Yeah, there’s an organisation that I volunteer for, in my local area that is a entrepreneurial incubator for primarily women of colour. And I’ve been volunteering for this organisation for probably six years now. And I was there speaking. And I give copies of my book to everyone who goes through this incubator. And this, this woman stood up at the end of my presentation, and I didn’t remember her she had been to one of the events that I spoke at when she was going through the incubator five years ago, and she just poured her heart out and gave this wonderful testimonial about how the things that she learned in my book had changed the trajectory of her life. And I mean, I was I was brought to tears. And that’s really why I do this work, especially for women, because we’re still behind men when it comes to money when it comes to earning money, when it comes to financial literacy, when it comes to investing. And whether we like it or not. Money and power are tied to each other right now in our world. And my goal is to empower women and help them to increase their financial dignity. And when I know that I’ve done that. It’s like my mission here is it’s moving forward. You know, it’s just one of those little glimmers from the universe saying you’re out on the right track. Isn’t
Juliette Karaman 30:01
that beautiful? We never quite know the impact that we have or that one Oh, we don’t action that we took that one book that you wrote the one comment the one incubator that you took someone through how that has changed someone’s trajectory of their lives. And this is why I think both you and I have podcasts because we know that we personally can’t touch everyone. But through this, the codes will get out and people will share. And they’ll be like, oh, there’s a little nugget and I can pick this up and I can run with it. Now I know which direction and like you said, you have a lot of stuff on your on your website. I’m sure there’s a lot of free stuff that people can look at and say, Oh, I can start changing my life. Yeah, that’s what it’s all about. Beautiful. That’s what it’s all about. It has been an absolute delight to have you on my love.
Same here. Thank you so much. Thank
Juliette Karaman 31:06
you. Thank you, my love’s, as always share, really do share this with people. If you have someone in your life that you’re thinking, Oh, they’ve been a bit of an ostrich about their money. I think this would be a really good episode. And that will then lead them on their track. Please share this much love