Episode 30 Unveiling the Secrets to Playful Intimacy: A Candid Conversation with Dr. Sara Sohn!

The Scrumptious Woman EP30

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

love, sex, body, feel, kink, eroticism, flavour, trauma, bit, pelvic floor physical, person, learned, people, talking, cupcake, play, work, discomfort, orgasm, pizza

SPEAKERS

Juliette Karaman, Sara Sohn

Juliette Karaman  00:00

All right. I have the wonderful Sarah Sohn. Sarah is a sex coach, I would say probably. But more than that, Sarah, why don’t you tell us about yourself a little bit. Give us an intro.

Sara Sohn  00:16

Sure, hello, I’m so glad to be here. So I am a pelvic floor physical therapist. So we’re basically the specialist of the muscles of the genital area. And I’m also a sex counsellor and sex educator, for other health providers and coaches that want to lead in this space. In a personal level, I if you can’t see me right now listening, I’m wearing rainbow earrings. You know, I am a very free spirited, queer lover of just different and helping people to really thrive in the brave person that they are the true. So it’s not just the muscles of the pelvic floor. But really, how do we bridge that gap from maybe discomfort or confidence to really thriving and who we are sexually. That’s why I’m here on this planet and this podcast.

Juliette Karaman  01:11

I love it. I love it love that we had we had people all through the whole podcast, it’s very much about pleasure, right? And word pleasure often gets associated with only sexual pleasure. But you know, it kind of feels like you are definitely helping people to achieve sexual pleasure. And also, what are some of the things that people come to you with?

Sara Sohn  01:35

It’s interesting, because, you know, there’s things that people come to me when they first start seeing me and then there’s the things that as we build that trust that the onion peels down, and it you know, so on the surface, a lot of people will see me one on one because I’m a specialist in pelvic pain disorders. So maybe they’re having pain every time they experience in the shirt, insertion or evacuation. But over time, as we’re talking, they’re really coming to me to learn how to express themselves sexually, to feel confident and comfortable in their bodies to know what their unique flavour of eroticism is. And to connect with that, and the health providers and coaches that work with me. They want to learn, you know, it’s not just the tissues, it’s what makes somebody want to kiss you, right, let’s not just the body tissues, but how do we help people to thrive sexually? And that’s not something that’s taught and most medical, anything? Or even just, you know, yeah, so So I see a wide range of people for for many different physical changes, but also leaders in that area that want to be able to help people with more than just body tissues.

Juliette Karaman  02:53

I love it because it becomes such a double thing, right? Like I have my private clients. And then I actually just teach a lot of coaches and therapists and entrepreneurs that want to get through trauma, and I specialise in a lot of sexual trauma. So you know, we’re in the same class and slightly different. Isn’t it cool? But it’s, it’s interesting, where people come to you say, Oh, I have this one thing. And then it’s actually so cool that one thing is years of combination of you not probably saying yes, when you want to say no, or not actually listening to your body, right? It’s all these little signs that we get that we just need someone to shine the light on this and say, Hey, you can actually learn what a yes or no is in your body.

Sara Sohn  03:48

And I love that you say in your body, right? Because as healers, it really is how you feel in your body. I have this formula that I’m very proud of. So we’d like to share it with you. But I call it my great sex formula. Maybe I’ll call it the Sarah’s great sex formula, because why not be feminist and put my name on it. But the it’s SEC stands for safety. And then eroticism and exploration. So when we’re we have you know, the the discomfort in our body, whether it be physical store, even we don’t even understand why but we don’t feel at home in our body. We don’t feel safe from a physiological level, even if our brain is like, I’m safe. I love this person. I want to XYZ. As soon as you start touching or as soon as you’re in the room, we just write a you’re a trauma specialist, you know, our body just does. I am not safe, right? I can’t breathe. My heart is racing and it doesn’t know any different between even if it wasn’t a sexual trauma or body doesn’t know the difference. It just knows I’m safe. I’m not safe. So you know, that’s the The the first layer right and then so it’s sex and then we can explore eroticism like what is unique to you? Maybe it’s I love to feel primal and wild and new and novel and like, I’m a messy hair grunting or maybe it’s like I like intimate all that Tantra and eye gazing and slow dancing. We’re like, what is that unique blueprint to you? And it might be very different to what we think it should be. And then how do you explore that, that’s the X, explore that with another person to communicate those things to really read that body language to be on that same love tank. And so sometimes what I think happens is we get this feeling that it’s like I have been through I am, have experienced some form of trauma, or I feel this discomfort in my body. And so therefore I am broken and I can’t explore. I can’t find my eroticism and what I, you know, all three of those are components to healing, right? It’s like learning how to heal from that trauma, that safety, but it’s also our eroticism, our exploration, those are all components of healing, and allowing yourself to explore, while cultivating safety and eroticism like that, within itself, just oh, I’m going to actually go on that date, or I’m going to actually initiate or whatever it is, those things in itself are healing, like, I don’t think we have to be healed to find that, that comfort in our body with another person. I think that connection, sometimes that that reflection, and that that other person saying You are wonderful, right in itself is healing

Juliette Karaman  06:45

completely. And I love the weather, you also said trauma for me, the way that I explained trauma to people is like, everyone’s had some kind of traumas, anything that happened too fast for your psyche, or for your body, to to go through. So it kind of gets stuck. So you go back into like the emotions of like, oh my God, what’s happening, I’m not feeling safe. And it’s interesting, because you and I are in this programme together and it’s hot. Yes, selfies and being visible. And, you know, feeling good in front of the camera and in front of on social media. And part of that what’s coming up for me is, is what I’ve been talking to people about is being visible. So either on social media, or sexually with your partner or just in an erotic way. There’s the safety element. So I love that you are talking but it’s part of how I train my trainers as well, my rapid release rewiring restore method, the first bit is safety. We don’t, our brain just goes offline. Our body reacts instead of responding.

Sara Sohn  08:02

And I love that you brought up the entrepreneur piece like just for background. So Julia and I met in a programme to help with social media marketing. And, you know, honestly, I’ve been struggling in the programme to apply it to the work that I do, because I think when you work in sexual wellness, it is a very different type of connection with the clients that you’re working with. Right? Like I don’t want to, can you still hear and see me, by the way? Okay, you’re frozen in my paygrade. If there’s, you know, we don’t want to be using things like likeability or flirting or you know, there’s a very different way that I think we have to market in this space, knowing what people the wounds that people have, may be looking for help with. And so one of my friends recommended to me like, Sarah, you love kink. You talk about kink all the time, it makes you light up, you love exploring and that about yourself, like, why don’t you use some of that sexual expression and energy in social media to make it fun? You know, and so much of that is exactly what we’re talking about. It’s like how do you feel safe to say, Hey, I’m an expert in this reach out to me, but then also what is actually going to be fun for you and unique for you in the work that you do that eroticism piece. And so I started to think about that, and maybe this is a little quirky, but I’m actually doing a workshop on it’s in the works right now. So maybe you can even help me. I’m you know, how can I use those unique things about me like I like to feel a little bit edgy and vulnerable. So maybe one day a week I share something that’s edgy and vulnerable. And one day a week I share something that’s more of that leadership dominating. I’m in my power stance, you know, and using that energy to create has been such a great mind shift for me even in my my marketing because I’m not a person that can be boring. I like currently, as we’re talking, I’m in a hotel I just went away for the weekend. And when I got my rainbow earrings like, I, it’s Monday, you know, I need to be having fun in order to thrive. And I think that we both probably attract a lot of people that that need that novelty that need that adventure that need that fun, even in the work that they do otherwise that like it’s just not going to get done. Like, I’m not going to create anything for my business. If I’m not enjoying it. It’s just the reality of of who I am as a person.

Juliette Karaman  10:30

That’s funny, but I love it. We’re getting completely different direction. That’s super cool. That’s what we do. Right? Well, I, again, when I never have questions for my guests, we just speak to what’s alive. And then we go on, we got to No wonder. So which I think is wonderful. But you know, the king pit, there’s like, wow, yeah, what is king? So I want to put a pin in that. And we will talk about that, because kink is one of my things as well. But it’s really it’s like, Where can we just have fun in our lives? Where can we be our business? It’s not just what we sell and what we teach people. It’s we are who we are, right? So that means you live rainbow earrings, which is great. And the lyrics are like a suture because I have sensual. You know, I’m an erotic blueprint coach as well. So we have I have, I’m a shapeshifter. So that means I love everything. So I like to shape shift in life a little bit as well. And, you know, I was a former dominatrix I would bring that little loving dome into a lot of my coffee. And people are like, What are you doing? Oh, my God. Part of it. Some of them. I’m loving it. But you know, my former kids are like, Mommy, little bit too much. But that’s the bit right. How can we be visible? How can we be ourselves and just be feel so good in what we do that it doesn’t really matter what other people they get.

Sara Sohn  12:08

And, you know, sometimes the words I think can be, and I try to be mindful of that and a trauma informed way. But sometimes I think the words can be scary for people. But really a lot of things we’re talking about is the same, like pleasure kink, it’s really what is unique to you what makes you thrive. And I think it applies. You know, my background is I do see people one on one for pelvic floor physical therapies, specifically pelvic pain disorders, fancy way of saying hurting down there, and sex counselling, but I also help leaders in that area. And a lot of the questions are similar in terms of what is how do I connect with someone in a trauma informed way? How do I let them know I’m here, and here’s who I am and invite them. You know, how do I cultivate that space? That’s intriguing, but also feels good to me. I mean, it’s a lot of the similar type of work and I didn’t even Honestly, if I heard myself saying these type of stuff, like maybe two or three years ago, but what kind of woowoo nonsense is that? But it’s true. I love school, and I’m a very, I’m an academic. So the whole the amount that I have learned from Cymatics and my kink work is been just, you know, I have a doctorate in physical therapy. I went to school for sex counselling, I went to school for sex education, where I’ve learned the most about consent for my body, my own unique blueprint erotic blueprint, my own gifts and visibility and being able to share that work with the world has personally been through exploration of kink. That’s why I’m so passionate about it and exploration of what makes me who I am.

Juliette Karaman  13:48

I love it. Would you share a little bit more there because I mean, for me, it’s been one of the biggest openers of trauma. So I re membered my my trauma, when I got flogged by Southern workshop and I knew something like, I get both of you to flog me because there’s something happening in my body and I just feel myself popping to my shoulders and it’s like, oh, I remember that I was saved right by five guys and she very much a lot of us do because the psyche isn’t ready. And it was just such an incredible space of these people are holding me I was with lots of people that loved me. And all you know, my body just started to shake and move it through and it was like 20 odd years of not remembering came up we moved through so quickly. So how I’ve been using him for the longest time was actually by duplicating experiences for them and then giving them a different ending To see how healings can be an awesome, I don’t mean it’s such a big topic. And King could be anything like, what is taboo for you undressing in front of someone? Does that feel kinky to us? I feel terrible what? What’s your definition of kink?

Sara Sohn  15:21

Well, I first want to thank you for your you know, authentic vulnerability and sharing your story. And, you know, I’m really sorry that you were assaulted and I’m glad that you’ve been able to alchemize some of that energy into it sounds like really helping other people through through their feeling of thriving in their body. And so I just want to thank you for the work that you do and for sharing that vulnerability. But you know, kinky for me is a really a big umbrella term for the flavour, your unique flavour that is delicious to you. So some people right here have unique flavour that’s delicious to you. And so what I love about the community too, it’s like hey, let’s just use this or you’re gonna come over for dinner Juliette. What kind of is this your first time having dinner together? What kind of mood Are you okay, you’re looking for more of an adventure and novel dinner? Let’s try what do you think about a blindfold? Okay, I’m gonna have you smell things first because you want this to be kind of a surprise. It’s a really about how do you want to feel? Oh, you want to feel intimate and have some light candles and then invite you over for dinner and like, feed you one bite at a time. And like wash you lick your lips in between each morsel of bite and afterwards you want to cuddle right like we’re, we’re building this experience before during an after of what is that unique flavour that you might have never even tasted before. That’s how I describe it’s such a healing experience. And just for so for more practical, right we’ll start talking about implements, like people like different sensations like floggers are the things that you’ll see some people like BDSM, which is an acronym that’s like a word salad of bondage, discipline, sadomasochism. And then the what does it stand for? Bondage discipline, sadomasochism, vote they stand for? Oh, yeah, but you can also say it differently. I owe it bondage discipline, sadomasochism, or bonnet dominant submission as well. So thank you. So that so really, a lot of these, like fancy words is just who’s going to be leading dinner? Or who’s just going to sit back and, and follow dinner? Right? Who is that power dynamic, right? So that can be a form of kink sensations can be a form of kink, you know, just being lightly touched, being a little bit spanked being a little bit, you know, how do you want to feel? What are the sensations you like, the keys you like? And then some people like those in a little bit more, more flavour, right? Like something like really spicy food. And that doesn’t mean you like it every night. Sometimes you want just your chicken noodle soup, right? So once in a while, you might like that really hot wax play dripped on your vulva, like in a safe way that I can teach you or you might really like, or you know, do like a deed you you know that, that? That hard? spanking or whatever, right? Like so it’s that flavour and, and an exploration and the way that it can be so healing is that you’re learning how to build the sandwich of safety, right? What are you going to do before? How are you going to connect during and what are you going to do after that builds the sandwich have saved so many food metaphors, but that builds that container of safety. You know, what are the things that within kink? You’re building that safety because you’re learning? Oh, I Yes, more please. Goose less you know, you have words for for these things and you get to model it. I’ve learned so much about other bodies just being around other people exploring their body. So just it’s helped me to normalise I say like, I’m a person that’s lost 100 pounds three times. So I got an apron belly right like if you lose a lot of weight your belly looks like low

Juliette Karaman  19:31

four kids in under three years time say yes.

Sara Sohn  19:35

There you go. But if your condition is a woman, I guarantee are a little bit so conscious about your belly and so I have learned to let that thing hang just being around a bunch of kinky people. I’m like, Girl, we all worried about our belly, but we all got one and it’s beautiful. And so it’s helped me to heal the trauma in my belly, right? Like it’s just helped me so much and modelled for me what that actually looks like in real life and not just kind of Uh, in theory,

Juliette Karaman  20:02

I love how playful you are about this, how playful you are about kink, which a lot of people love, right? That’s, that’s one of the main things that comes up for people. You know, when I work with couples, and one of them is a bit more kinky, but doesn’t dare until their partner after 23 years of marriage, like, hey, I want to try this. I feel like if we can just bring that play into curious what’s going on, I love the safety sandwich that is I love because it just, we we are creating a buffet, like a smorgasbord of sections and different tools they can use in different ways of healing. And it doesn’t always need to be set out serious, right? We can have fun. Yes, we can use for serious stuff. But we can also have fun.

Sara Sohn  20:55

Yes. And, you know, I’m glad you brought up couples, because so a lot of this work started being a pelvic floor physical therapist, where one person was having pelvic pain, really hurting. And so when you’re really hurt your body, as you know, just it shuts down, and it shuts down a lot of those pleasure centres. And so now their partner every time they touch them, they’re like, Is this okay? Is this okay? And they’re afraid to touch them, it creates all this dynamic. And so what I love about kink is it has given me the tools as a leader in this area, to say, let’s explore outside of the general area and really get creative, you know, what is, is bad or wrong, or we’re experimenting and you are going to be different than every other person I’ve talked to, and how do we play and experiment with the spices that we’re cooking here. But it’s so vulnerable, and to think, you know, change in any relationship is vulnerable, or to realise something that you didn’t know about your partner, especially when it comes to sex, it’s so vulnerable. Sexual rejection is so vulnerable. And so having people like us that helped to create that container of vulnerability of like, I have been here before listening to people just like you that you, the best thing is that you’re wanting to be vulnerable together, you’re wanting to hold that space together, and move at the speed of chest, as Adrian Marie Brown says, You don’t have to go from zero to 100, right, like playing with some of these things, you’re moving at the speed of the chest, and you’re getting to know yourself and each other better. It’s a beautiful change.

Juliette Karaman  22:38

I love how you started with pelvic floor pain. And I know that you know, two of my very good friends, Elizabeth wood and Dr. Gottman. And that’s what they’re all about, that people don’t need to have. And it’s it’s not really if you’re having pain, in fact, you know, no stop, don’t need to experience. And this is where we can replace. So what I do my people that come to me that have not sex between for years, I will actually talk sex is the table. For the first four weeks we take sex off the table. I teach them how to communicate with each other. How what, what their knew was, what their yeses are in their body, because they often don’t know. And it’s our mind and our bodies are just so incredible, right, we can’t be negative and something really positive and in the same time, because then they kind of like you kind of have both both hold on to both and have experiences that so it kind of reduces the charge. If you then start talking about your husband and your partner. It’s like, Oh, these are the things I used to love about him that you probably won’t or won’t remember that, you know, he didn’t do the dishes last night because your brain will be pulled to like all the positive things right all the things that you but the fun thing is, I think it’s really to take time and to be creative, to have fun like just have you all are creating so much fun with your clients with just your erase the way that you are. Like this image, right.

Sara Sohn  24:27

I think that’s why we were attracted to each other to work together because we both have that. You know, not everyone is like that, you know, I think we both have that play. Right? We see our work we see our our our our job is serious and very valuable and important, but it’s it’s playful, it’s fun. It doesn’t have to be perfect and I’m fact that we create harm in trying to be perfect. And I think what you touched on something there that I learned from one of my a wonderful person looseleaf Lucille Fielding, who wrote the book transects talks a lot about imagination failure. And one of the things that I think is providers and health providers and coaches, where and in our own relationships really, where we can start to cause harm is often in an imagination failure. We can’t imagine that maybe somebody is that when they say sex, they actually mean something very different than when I say sex, right? So when I say sex, maybe, I mean, I’m talking about penis and vagina, and for them, that’s not in their sexual repertoire, they love, you know, using toys, or, you know, they, they are in a same sex relationship, and they do something very different than what I think right? Like not all, same sex couples have anal sex, same sex couples enjoy a lot of other things. And so we might have this very specific blueprint of what someone is doing. And oftentimes where we can cause discomfort or harm is in an imagination failure. So that playful energy that imagination and questioning and supporting the people that we work with, if I if anyone’s listening to this that wants to help people in that space, that’s the one thing I would ask you to do on a daily basis is how can I be a little bit more imaginative? In the work that I’m doing? Where is a space that can say, okay, maybe, you know, that’s a common thing, right? We’re going to take insertion off the table for a month, I love that, you know, where can I start to say, okay, assertions off the table, but we’re still baking a cupcake, we still need the ingredient of pleasure, what is the gonna be the ingredient of pleasure, that’s going to actually build the cupcake, because otherwise, we’re just saying, it’s important to do the trauma informed and talking and all that other stuff, we’re not going to have a cupcake at the end of the day. We’re not throwing in some ingredients of pleasure. We’d have a flat piece of toast.

Juliette Karaman  27:00

And the thing is, so much comes up, right? For these couples, often it’s like, just the word freaks them out sometimes. And then it’s like, what have they been taught about it? And then what are their ways of communication? Right? And simple question, What does sex mean to you? That can be so deepening, it’s like, oh, to me, sex means already like you holding hands. nibbling on my back is a beautiful way intersects. And at the moment, I might not want any penetration. How can we just take penetration off the table. And oftentimes, what I also hear is, men that don’t know how to make, like that is so important to them. So they put all their attention on like she asked to climax today. It’s like, you’re actually losing a whole part of connection. And this whole, see this whole, neuroticism is about connection is about feeling yummy. Just by focusing on the climax, you’re losing all of that, and you’re putting so much pressure on her that she’s like, No, I don’t want any of this. Yes, yeah, it would be a little bit imaginative and say, Hey, let’s take that off the table and let’s just have fun. Here. Maybe doo doo, get some mixing jelly and start spreading it on each other.

Sara Sohn  28:35

Yes, and I’d love to one of my other mentors, Kelly deals uses the word toggle out. So I’d love to talk you out on the idea as in Where’s this coming from? The you know, the internalised shame of what sex is supposed to look like, is real. And Where’s that coming from? So I just invite anyone listening. Just ask yourself Who was your teacher? When it came to sex? Who was your teacher? Was it a porn? Was it your friends that you spoke to that kind of like oh, I would never that’s an exit that’s not an entrance. Right? Was it? Was it were Who was your teacher? And there’s this thing that comes to intimacy, relationships, sex, some of the most important and we we make our whole life right at work sex obsessed culture, but we’re not a sex literate one. I’m gonna repeat that work sex obsessed culture. I call it Sox sex obsessed culture where knowledge is silenced. That’s my socks that we wear these dirty socks. Sex obsessed culture when knowledge is silenced, but we’re not a sex literate one where we’re talking about sex, you know, and intimacy and connection and consent. So no, pardon my French No shit. When we go to try to do these things, and were like, well, this is what I saw. This is what the last person told me they liked or this is what I saw. They see all the time in movies. You just stick it in and everything goes hunky dory and it leads to this magical orgasm. for both of us at the exact same time forever. Like, you know, it’s so it’s so interesting because we often which I love this, right? A lot of leaders in this space are talking about the orgasm gap. So the orgasm gap is this, the science behind that heterosexual couples, a man and a woman cisgender man and woman together have less orgasms than same sex couples and the heterosexual man will have more orgasms then the head than the SIS, straight woman right. And so this this orgasm gap, but what I really wish he focused on was more of a pleasure gap. Because for a lot of people pleasure doesn’t include orgasm. For a lot of people it does. But orgasm being a goal, like having goal oriented sex and shameful sex is never a recipe that’s going to make a beautiful cupcake. That is recipe that’s going to make something really scary. I’m not a great baker. So this is probably a bad, I would like to think I’m pretty good at sex, but I’m not great at baking. So maybe a bad metaphor for me. But it’s gonna make one really salty cupcakes, like you’re just adding way too much salt and not enough sugar, if you’re focused on these goal oriented, but that’s what we’ve been taught. There’s a great TED Talk by our ver Nacho, called if I recommend called Sex is a new metaphor. And he talks about sex being described as baseball right? So we even use these terms, but like, right first base for a second base, where at third base, we made a home run, we went all the way. So competitive, right? This like competitive, competitive nature of sex, and how we need to have a better metaphor for it. So he describes like pizza, right? Like, what are your flavours to me, I look at those as kings But, and one night, you might want one slice. So nights, you might want two slices. Some nights, you might get a little tired of like, oh, you know what, I want some soup instead. Some nights, you might be like, I want everything. Pizza. You know, I’ve never had pineapple on my pizza, but I’m here for it.

Juliette Karaman  32:16

I love it. Great. And there’s, there’s such a cultural difference, right? So I’m Dutch, and you have to. And then when I moved, hey, I had two boys at the time. And then I was pregnant with twin girls. So I was asking my husband’s cousin like, what do you join? Like front bottom and back bathroom? Or like, Okay, that’s a bit weird. So I decided not to do that with my kids. But it’s just, there’s so many little hang ups. And they’re standing in different cultures. You talk about different things. You don’t talk about sex, but I love this food analogy and the pizza. Yes. Sometimes you want germs, you know, like pineapple is not uniform. But it’s like, Oh, why not? Why don’t we try a little bit? Can I have a bite of yours, right? It just really starts to work and feeling like it doesn’t always need to be the same. This is one of the things that I’ve noticed most that everyone wants to have the proper recipe that’s always gonna work that cake and it’s always gonna rise, but we forget that we are different every day, every minute, you know, whatever you’re getting to like caress someone a little bit and like maybe play around a big ears and their neck and then weave a nibble on their shoulder but usually that’s the way in but then tonight, it’s like yeah, no, that’s not gonna work. And that’s when a lot of people get triggered like, what I’m doing everything right. I’m doing everything the way that you taught me. Like yes, the one thing

Sara Sohn  34:02

Yes, Julia, what are your favourite toppings on pizza?

Juliette Karaman  34:06

Oh my god, I like everything right, I’ll be like, Oh, some some days it would be pepperonis and olives, ham and cheese and blue cheese. And sometimes I’m just like, oh, I’ll just have a little bit of Parmesan.

Sara Sohn  34:27

You know, I’m I have never heard of blue cheese on pizza. So I am this that’s different. And you know what’s so exciting is that we celebrate the differences. I think that’s the main difference. We don’t go like what we’re like, here. You have blue cheese on your pizza. I’ve never even heard of that. Right like and you I’m curious maybe we can get some slices with blue cheese and some slices playing because I’m not sure if I like it right like it’s it’s that collaboration together. And you bring up such an interesting point of The cultural differences I feel like I can learn so much from you have you know, I’m, I live in Florida in the US. And I’ve been to every almost every continent by myself with a backpack. So I do love to travel. But there’s a big difference between travelling place and understanding a culture. And I’ll never understand what it’s like to live in a different experience where in some cultures, there is so much more sex positivity and body positivity. And in the culture that I was raised, just existing and talking about my body or sex is so taboo where I live. And it comes with its own concerns. I think when you live in a culture, it’s so different, right? So it’s like, for us, a lot of the people that I speak to, there’s so much concerns around that purity culture or that discomfort. And I can see a lot of comparison perhaps, if you live in a culture that celebrates diversity, but now you’re comparing and you’re like, but I just, I want my cheese pizza. Is that still okay?

Juliette Karaman  36:13

And that’s it, right? Yes, we can have it all. And the only thing that I would say I hate the word need, but it one of the big things that we teach is communication. How can you communicate stuff, partner, to your partners, to the people around you? What is it that you actually do need that moment? What is this body? What is the psyche? What do I need? What are my boundaries? are talking about kink, like, what am I okay to do today? And I might not be okay to do tomorrow. Alright, so read, communication.

Sara Sohn  36:53

Yes, and so much. And I think kink also helps to expand communication, because there’s a lot of communication that’s nonverbal. So just as a small example, when if you’re a pelvic floor physical therapist, and you specialise in pelvic pain disorders, one of the common tools that we’ll use will be something like a dilator, where they’re graded sizes of tapered insertion devices, and it’s designed to help you to stretch the muscles and things like that. But I encourage the use of dials, I think, very different than most powerful therapists, I teach this stuff, because I’m so passionate about it. And one of the things that I really encourage in that is starting to work on nonverbal communication as well. Right? So sometimes our body might feel just that that little itch of like, oh, I want to pause, but it doesn’t feel like enough. It’s not enough of a pause to say the word. So it could just be I put my hand up. And that’s just, this is saying, pause, right? Or, or I shake my hand, or wiggle my finger. And that’s like, we need to stop, right? Like, there’s so much that we can start to read each other’s body, in that nonverbal, intentional way that I think especially if you’ve been through trauma or conditions that your voice becomes difficult, it becomes very difficult to express those things, even if you want to. And so I love this, this conversation and the different flavours of even how communication might look and how that might look nonverbal for a lot of people

Juliette Karaman  38:33

completely. And I think what you raised so, so important, even if you do good scenes, oftentimes, someone will be found, maybe use ropes, or there’ll be things that they can’t speak with the guide, whatever. But you need to be able to communicate, right and say so often. It is like, hey, pause, we just have a pause. It doesn’t mean no doesn’t mean hands off immediately. Can I just? Yeah, so that is yes, we have have in the beginning before we start, okay, if I can’t speak, and this means just hold on a minute, just let me take a breath. Whatever other signals you might have, it’s like, no hands off. I need to stop for now. And then really, that is often what it is right? I call that the secret pause. It’s just allowing our bodies to breath again. It’s like, oh, this is uncomfortable. I am. I’m in a part of me that is not used to this yet. So I’m expanding my nervous system just to take a breath.

Sara Sohn  39:48

I love the phrase sacred pause because when I think of some of the best sexual experiences I’ve had, oftentimes, that sacred pause is actually really intimate moment of connection of we’re listening to each other’s bodies. And so it is sacred. And it’s not, you know, we have this recipe that we think is going to create good sex. But often when I talk to people, I’ll just ask them, like, again, if you have a pen right now, and you want to pause this, just write down your best sexual experience, or one of the really great ones. And oftentimes people will say, Oh, it was novel, and I never really, I never saw this person again. Or it was so intimate. We just like looked each other’s eyes like, right? Like, there might be something that surprises you and what that was, and then oftentimes, I’ll ask them questions, and like, was there laughter? Was there a pause? Did things stop? Where did they? And oftentimes, we have this definition, that none of those things can happen, or we’re not being good at it in quotes. But it’s like good sex and quotes can include mistakes and laughter. And it can stop at it could be ridiculous, like body fluids can go somewhere that you didn’t really want it and you laughed about it, like, like these are, this is what really happens when people are are intimate with when bodies come together in an intimate way.

Juliette Karaman  41:11

Isn’t it cool, right? And that’s just, it doesn’t need to look a certain way. But really just explore. So this has been delightful. Please share with our listeners where they can find you how they can work with you. What’s what’s the best way?

Sara Sohn  41:31

Sure. So I’ll send you a link tree link where I always have like a word, my next workshop or something on there. So if you follow that link at the time of this recording, it’ll be updated. But you can connect with me on Instagram, it’s Dr. Sarah SARA SOHN. I have a Facebook group that’s free. It’s called Better Sex by Sara and I do a lot of wonderful things in there. So those would be the two best places, definitely send me a message on Instagram. And I can send you have a really great worksheet on some of the playful ideas that we talked about today. So if you want that worksheet, like oh, I listen to podcasts, I’d love to listen to your worksheet of playful ideas that’s beyond insertion, you can send me a message, and I will send that to you, or join the Facebook group. And it’s in there as well. So either place is really wonderful, I always have something going on for people that just want to connect with themselves, and also for leaders in this space. And so I am really excited for you to connect and and we can go from there.

Juliette Karaman  42:39

Amazing. So this will all be in the show notes and look down in the show notes. And as always, please share this with someone. What I’d love you to do is listen to it and send leave a review it’s really important to leave a review. And if you leave a review and send me a screenshot of it, I will give you my horse scrumptious dates which is usually 555 pounds for free. So that will be a little incentive for people to play. You get play or Sarah and you get to play with me. I love you.

Sara Sohn  43:19

You too. This was lovely anytime. Bye for now. Hi